Should the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club Stay in the ACA

  • Eileen Lenkman
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1 year 5 months ago #7062 by Eileen Lenkman
Replied by Eileen Lenkman on topic Should the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club Stay in the ACA
Thank you Robert.

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  • Eileen Lenkman
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1 year 5 months ago #7061 by Eileen Lenkman
Replied by Eileen Lenkman on topic Should the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club Stay in the ACA
Thank you Eleanor.

No decision has been made yet as to whether or not we'll stay in the ACA - I am just trying to get input. That decision will be made via a survey/poll that will be sent to every member of the club. Although I want to hear from those of you who perhaps chose NOT to join the club because of the dues and paperwork.

For the immediate future, my goal for each trip is to eliminate the need for the trip leader to collect money and waivers on the day of the trip at the meeting place. We were pretty successful in that at the Skills Clinic as I collected the smallest amount of money and the least number of forms in the past five years.

Eileen

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  • Eileen Lenkman
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1 year 5 months ago #7060 by Eileen Lenkman
Replied by Eileen Lenkman on topic Should the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club Stay in the ACA
Thank you Gary!

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  • Eleanor Pardini
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1 year 5 months ago #7056 by Eleanor Pardini
Replied by Eleanor Pardini on topic Should the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club Stay in the ACA
I appreciate all the thought and care you are putting into this decision Eileen and Marty, and all the comments of experienced instructors and trio leaders.

I am a newer paddler and club member, so I can’t speak from long experience or having led trips. I can say that I do appreciate the ACA’s advocacy for the paddling community and stewardship. I also deeply appreciate the instructor recruitment, cultivating, training, and mentorship. There are so many phenomenal ACA instructors in this community and it is an incredible resource.

I have found the ACA waiver as a member to be pretty easy to navigate my second year through and the online waiver option to be awesome. It would be helpful if we could post the links to the online waivers for both members-annual and nonmembers-event in an easy to find home location on the main home page. I would make an effort to use that for my kids next time.

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  • Gary Strohmeyer
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1 year 5 months ago #7053 by Gary Strohmeyer
Replied by Gary Strohmeyer on topic Should the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club Stay in the ACA
We could retain our membership in the ACA to support their advocacy for the paddling community and the training and certification programs they provide as well as seek blanket liability coverage from a third party insurance vendor if that would ease the anxieties over our exposure to litigation. Our annual dues to the ACA are only $175. Doing so would probably eliminate the onerous task of taking names, collecting money and having to know the ACA status of anybody participating in an event. We could concentrate on organizing trips, pop-ups, and having fun.
As far as I know, our club has never filed a claim with the ACA's insurance carrier.
I am not trained as a legal eagle but the way I read the ACA policy the officers and members are covered to the limits of the liabilities stated on the policy as long as we follow the ACA guidelines for our events.
I am going to try to attach a copy of the current policy to this message, something I've never tried before, so anyone can read it for themselves.
Gary
Attachments:

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  • Robert Klein
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1 year 5 months ago #7050 by Robert Klein
I do not know anything about the statistics of ACA outlays for attorney fees and settlement cost that the organization absorbs every year. My guess is it is very little, or they would be bankrupt. I run a small company and we don't engage in recreation activities where people are exposed to danger. Our employees drive cars and install machinery in factories. I spend $1,200 for a $2 million personal business liability policy. I spend $6K for a $ 5million dollar business liability policy. I spend $3,500 for $1,000.000 business use auto liability policy. I spend $300 on a $1million umbrella policy for my home owners.. I have never had a claim on any of these policies. But, I have been a witness in some lawsuits on behalf of companies that I have worked for as an employee. I suspect that the ACA insurance carrier will find fault with any execution of activities of our officers and will try to remove themselves from covering our liabilities. If you officers truly believe that you are engaging in significant risk involving yourself in the dangerous activities of kayaking, then would stop taking these risk - if I were you. Or, buy some personal liability coverage. Do you have any claim experience with ACA's insurance carrier? Do you understand their limits of coverage? Do you have a copy of their insurance policy? Are you named on the policy as being covered? Does the club have a legal status? Are the officers owners? Have you looked into director's liability coverage? Relying on the ACA insurance to protect you from $millions of exposure as stated in messages above sounds iffy to me. When I get in my kayak. I am getting into a boat that I own. I am liable for that boat. My home owners insurance covers that liability. If I drown while using it on a club event, are you thinking that that the officers are liable to my estate for the accident and my death? Do you condone alcohol or recreational drug consumption on your events? Is that covered on the ACA policy? Does it cover bad weather decisions? You guys have a lot more faith in ACA insurance than I have.

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  • Dave Haessig
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1 year 5 months ago #7037 by Dave Haessig
Over the years the ACA has frustrated me. They have improved in their ability to get cards out and other office duties. They have made several significant decisions without input from. Membership that has angered me such as the elimination of family memberships. But the 2 things the constantly do well is stewardship and the development of instructors. I Don think we could continue as an safe and effective club without the quality to train new members and to ensure access to places to paddle.

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  • Eileen Lenkman
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1 year 5 months ago #7034 by Eileen Lenkman
Since this was brought up in the Regfox discussion, to keep that one focused, I thought I'd better create it's own forum. I know a lot of people have very strong opinions on whether or not the St Louis Canoe & Kayak Club should continue as an ACA paddle club with all it's pain in the butt restictions. AND benefits.

But, I feel I have to put this in writing. There are a lot of people in this club who became officers and trip leaders only BECAUSE of the protections offered by the ACA. They know that they have some protection from being sued should something go terribly wrong.

Those of you who want to leave the ACA: are you willing to step up and assume club and trip leadership if people who do not want to participate without ACA protections leave those positions and/or the club? I am not saying this would happen. I (Eileen) have not spoken to everyone about this. But please be aware that without the ACA insurance/protections, it's the club officers and trip leaders who could lose their houses, cars and retirement. No matter how unlikely, it could happen.

Hold onto your butts and let the discussion commence.

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